Club Fine

[abee]

Alan, good to see you in fine fettle on the message board. You are completely right re quality of day to day club management application over quantity of monetary input.

One thing I've definitely learnt in football is you can't run a successful football club by committee, you have to run it from the top in an authoritive manner, but that does mean the person running it has to have the club at heart.

I think Terry who was chairman for 6 years got us 3 promotions and left something like 40k cash in the bank. Different times I know but keeping a type reign on the cashflow was always his priority.
[/quote]

I lived and worked in the Middle East for thirty years Brian and the Arabs have a saying:-

'A camel is a thoroughbred racehorse designed by a committee'

Tell me ..........we have I believe posters on here who have access to Shahid. Someone should ask him if he is happy with the communications and general management at the club and if not what is doing about improving them. He should also be asked whether appointing Brian Bloomfield and Richard Petty to the board with specific roles would strengthen the board. Substitute other names if either or both are unable or unwilling but if Shahid says that he is happy with the board and no he doesn't believe these two guys could add anything then the penny should drop with even his most ardent supporters that he does not have the immediate and to my mind urgent interests of the club at heart.

[AFC197273]

Your correct Shots on Target, looking back through my Shots 1992 records the cash figure in the bank was closer to 60K when I retired as chairman,
with outstanding creditors of around 23K, so surplus cash of around 37K.

When we launched the new 1992 club we had around 12 Shots Supporters asking to be directors and we interviewed all of them as we knew them all
anyway. We finally chose directors who each could serve the club with different skill sets that would help to promote and run the club in the best
possible way, after a couple of seasons we added another two again with different skill sets that we needed. They all delivered what their individual
responsibilities were very well. We also without fail held board meetings every month along with monthly management accounts. Finally we always kept the
supporters informed on important information, including via the supporters club who had a very well deserved place on the board of directors with
Graham Brookland as their chairman and later on with Ian Read after Graham became club secretary, they rightly sometimes gave us a tough time if they
felt we were not making the right decisions ; ; ; ; ; ; Tough times ahead for the club now, both short and long term.

Meanwhile I keep doing my best as the Ambassador of ATFC, but I am never asked for any help or advice by Shahid and he has never spoken to me at
length for years. I also keep doing my best as one of the Shots in The Community Foundation Trustees. This football club is not in my blood, it is deep
into my bones.

Thanks Terry, very interesting,particularly your comment about tough times ahead in the short and long term. Abee and Brian Bloomfield have also shared some concerns. Surely now,with some very qualified people saying things are not right,it’s time to hear from the board..,I fear we are financially in trouble again

[Aldershot_Rob]

Meanwhile I keep doing my best as the Ambassador of ATFC, but I am never asked for any help or advice by Shahid and he has never spoken to me at
length for years. I also keep doing my best as one of the Shots in The Community Foundation Trustees. This football club is not in my blood, it is deep
into my bones.

I am staggered that Azeem has never asked for your help or advice considering your long-standing connection and ties with ATFC.
Terry, you'd be an absolute asset to any BoD set up at the club , your passion and commitment is unwavering and I'm sure your advice and help would be welcomed by others.

[Mytshot]

Meanwhile I keep doing my best as the Ambassador of ATFC, but I am never asked for any help or advice by Shahid and he has never spoken to me at
length for years. I also keep doing my best as one of the Shots in The Community Foundation Trustees. This football club is not in my blood, it is deep
into my bones.

I am staggered that Azeem has never asked for your help or advice considering your long-standing connection and ties with ATFC.
Terry, you'd be an absolute asset to any BoD set up at the club , your passion and commitment is unwavering and I'm sure your advice and help would be welcomed by others.

It beggars belief that Terry isn't spoken to by the chairman. It's one of those things you assume must be happening behind the scenes but to hear that it's not makes me (even more) worried about the direction this club is being taken.

[lowerbourneshot]

Meanwhile I keep doing my best as the Ambassador of ATFC, but I am never asked for any help or advice by Shahid and he has never spoken to me at
length for years. I also keep doing my best as one of the Shots in The Community Foundation Trustees. This football club is not in my blood, it is deep
into my bones.

I am staggered that Azeem has never asked for your help or advice considering your long-standing connection and ties with ATFC.
Terry, you'd be an absolute asset to any BoD set up at the club , your passion and commitment is unwavering and I'm sure your advice and help would be welcomed by others.

It beggars belief that Terry isn't spoken to by the chairman. It's one of those things you assume must be happening behind the scenes but to hear that it's not makes me (even more) worried about the direction this club is being taken.

It's the Aldershot way remember and please correct me if I'm wrong ,Terry and Graham had their seats taken away from them . Graham was only allowed to sell his book at the front of the ground . A shambolic way to treat 2 people who weren't just people who formed a club ,they are fine Aldershot club men through and through . The trouble was as the club rose we needed more outside business and people who weren't supporters . If only there was a self made multi millionaire shots fan out there . I'm not talking championship or any of that ,but just ensures the club is safe for the future .

[ShotOnTarget]

Tell me......ATFC has had businessmen join and leave the board over the past decade but can any supporter truly say and believe that the professionalism and running of the club off the field has improved in any way at all.

I can't see it and the board needs beefing up with well known supporters who can bring their own expertise probably in lieu of any investment. I'd sooner see any new board appointments highlighted for what they bring to the board rather than someone who writes out a cheque and is automatically able to say that he is a big important director at his local club.

Excellent post again, Abee. There is no shortage of brilliant content on here lately.

I have been left frustrated with the club over the past 10 years as any new initiatives usually end up with the same stock answer.
"Tried it once. Didn't make money"

I get it, profit is king. But so is looking after your fans. Catering for instance. Why not give an opportunity for local butchers, or food stalls to show case their grub. Even if it means practically giving away the pitch. it has to be better than continuing sub standard food being sold.
Then you can get incentives for fans in the door earlier, club house makes a better turn over etc etc. it builds connections with fans and builds connections with local businesses too.

I think a local butcher was invited to sell their excellent wares on site (pies I think), but they were extremely over priced, resulting in some 'forthright' objections from some supporters. The butcher never returned.

As for new initiatives, you are 100% correct. One such example is that, as Trust Community Director, I introduced the Club to members of the Nepalese community many years ago and it resulted in a friendly against an assembled 'Nepal Utd' side. A club official said to me post-match "we'll know if this has been worth the effort if we see an extra thousand on the gate for our first home game next season". That naive perspective from a senior official, along with many others such examples, brought it home that, back then, all was not well.

On the plus side, the club did host a successful England 'C' fixture against the Nepal national side at the end of last season. Again, it didn't put a thousand on the gate for the first home game, but let's home the Club recognises the long term value that this particular fixture brings and makes every effort to repeat it.

[Ex Attendant]

Maybe but it's Ireland....Though I must admit I would not be bothered if anything North of Watford if the powers that be sectioned it off and gave it to Scotland, that's even more simplistic )

Ireland is an island with two countries on it Eire and Northern Ireland, much like Hispaniola has two nations on it.

I thank you Sir.

No problem, by the way were you in the North Stand high street terrace on Saturday.

[Ex Attendant]

Meanwhile I keep doing my best as the Ambassador of ATFC, but I am never asked for any help or advice by Shahid and he has never spoken to me at
length for years. I also keep doing my best as one of the Shots in The Community Foundation Trustees. This football club is not in my blood, it is deep
into my bones.

I am staggered that Azeem has never asked for your help or advice considering your long-standing connection and ties with ATFC.
Terry, you'd be an absolute asset to any BoD set up at the club , your passion and commitment is unwavering and I'm sure your advice and help would be welcomed by others.

Surely everything is rosey at ATFC, new lease, re development etc. I think I'm correct in thinking attendances are above break even so cash flow should be OK. Why are people worried it's not like there's a history of financial cock ups.

[Fuggletim]

Ref to Shotsontarget’s post about the pies, they were a really great product and we had them for a season or so. They were “overpriced” in the context of food at football matches is “overpriced” but the thing was they were a quality product whereas as a lot of the fayre really isn’t.

I had some debate on here a few years ago with Richard Petty about who the pie manufacturer was but I can’t recall the name now, but I know you can buy almost identical pies at a few locations across Hampshire and the IOW. The irony is that they now cost about the same as they were being charged for back in the day at the ground!

Sad to read about Terry Owens and the lack of communication between him and Shahid Azeem. Terry lives and breathes Aldershot and always has had his heart deep within the club and you would think should be treated as such.

[CH]

Shahid has said in the past he will hand over the reigns of ATFC if in his opinion the right people make the right offer.

What worries me is what qualifies Shahid to choose what is and what isn't the right offer and there is never any obligation to publicly advise supporters.

All the while Shahid holds (and enjoys) the power is there any incentive to hand over control?

How do the supporters know that offers (good or bad) haven't already been made and dismissed by Shahid? You'd hope the interested parties might make their intent public, but it's not always that simple.

I fear Shahid will never willingly hand over control and we will be led down a path supporters just don't want. Regional part time football in a boxed in stadium of 5000 capacity that everyone hates. The result? Oblivion.

[lowerbourneshot]

Shahid has said in the past he will hand over the reigns of ATFC if in his opinion the right people make the right offer.

What worries me is what qualifies Shahid to choose what is and what isn't the right offer and there is never any obligation to publicly advise supporters.

All the while Shahid holds (and enjoys) the power is there any incentive to hand over control?

How do the supporters know that offers (good or bad) haven't already been made and dismissed by Shahid? You'd hope the interested parties might make their intent public, but it's not always that simple.

I fear Shahid will never willingly hand over control and we will be led down a path supporters just don't want. Regional part time football in a boxed in stadium of 5000 capacity that everyone hates. The result? Oblivion.

Good post I cannot believe in all the time shahid has been in control ,not one single decent offer has come in

[brian bloomfield]

Shahid has said in the past he will hand over the reigns of ATFC if in his opinion the right people make the right offer.

What worries me is what qualifies Shahid to choose what is and what isn't the right offer and there is never any obligation to publicly advise supporters.

All the while Shahid holds (and enjoys) the power is there any incentive to hand over control?

How do the supporters know that offers (good or bad) haven't already been made and dismissed by Shahid? You'd hope the interested parties might make their intent public, but it's not always that simple.

I fear Shahid will never willingly hand over control and we will be led down a path supporters just don't want. Regional part time football in a boxed in stadium of 5000 capacity that everyone hates. The result? Oblivion.

The above message deserves a thread of it's own.

Technically the club is broke, I could use other more inflamatory words but will remain from doing so.

As Abee gave Shahid the benefit of the doubt, so will I.

First it is not unreasonable for Shahid and other board members to protect their financial investment. There is though no value to "Loving the Club" or "I've worked hard over the last 14 years.

The sale price is negotiable and depends on the negotiable hit they are prepared to take 1% or 99%.

The value of the club is the value of the balance sheet and P&L forecast moving forward and lets throw in the emotional element and the price someone is prepared to sacrifice from their wealth. Of course wrapped up in the last known balance sheet 22/23 accounts is a possible £1.4m of debt servicing.

In addition we have a massive elephant in the room, which is the redevelopment of the stadium. The club needs a new ground, a lot of work has gone into it and the council is fully behind the proposition.

Shahid has always said he will leave the club once the club is debt free and a new ground is built. So on the basis of that currently the club would not be for sell unless someone came in and cleared all the shareholders out and the debt about £2.5m. Throw in a minimum 500k working capital then £3,000,000 is the money needed to gain control and forward plan, and we haven't started on the development yet which maybe requires 10m to build an acceptable arena which the fans will buy into. I Haven't included the housing project in any of those figures as in my opinion it is better to move than produce a limited stadium with no possibility of future development to the rear of the East Bank.

We can pick over the nuts and bolts, but this is where I believe we are: and maybe like you or me if we were in the same position, surely we would like to see some return on our investment.

The bottom line is what are the current penny in the £ the custodians require to relinquish control., if they had the thought going through their mind

[Ex Attendant]

Shahid has said in the past he will hand over the reigns of ATFC if in his opinion the right people make the right offer.

What worries me is what qualifies Shahid to choose what is and what isn't the right offer and there is never any obligation to publicly advise supporters.

All the while Shahid holds (and enjoys) the power is there any incentive to hand over control?

How do the supporters know that offers (good or bad) haven't already been made and dismissed by Shahid? You'd hope the interested parties might make their intent public, but it's not always that simple.

I fear Shahid will never willingly hand over control and we will be led down a path supporters just don't want. Regional part time football in a boxed in stadium of 5000 capacity that everyone hates. The result? Oblivion.

Good post I cannot believe in all the time shahid has been in control ,not one single decent offer has come in

A big offer from a property developer might sway it.

[hepcat]

Alan, good to see you in fine fettle on the message board. You are completely right re quality of day to day club management application over quantity of monetary input.

One thing I've definitely learnt in football is you can't run a successful football club by committee, you have to run it from the top in an authoritive manner, but that does mean the person running it has to have the club at heart.

I think Terry who was chairman for 6 years got us 3 promotions and left something like 40k cash in the bank. Different times I know but keeping a type reign on the cashflow was always his priority.

I lived and worked in the Middle East for thirty years Brian and the Arabs have a saying:-

'A camel is a thoroughbred racehorse designed by a committee'

Tell me ..........we have I believe posters on here who have access to Shahid. Someone should ask him if he is happy with the communications and general management at the club and if not what is doing about improving them. He should also be asked whether appointing Brian Bloomfield and Richard Petty to the board with specific roles would strengthen the board. Substitute other names if either or both are unable or unwilling but if Shahid says that he is happy with the board and no he doesn't believe these two guys could add anything then the penny should drop with even his most ardent supporters that he does not have the immediate and to my mind urgent interests of the club at heart.
[/quote]

How much would you think the Shot's are hampered by not owning the Rec,which is in a decrepit state, and limited off field revenues ? Sounds like a rhetorical question ,but it needs some claifying of just how difficult it is to move the club forwards.I feel we are over reliant on gate money which leaves us little room for manoeuvre.
I know a new purpose built ground with off field revenues galore wont suddenly see us with millions to spend , though I feel (maybe wrongly a lot of my ideas/values have long become extinct) a new stadium plus the potential that brings (IF done well) and the extra revenue,we might have persuaded Mr S and Mr T to give us another season for a promotion push. As we are, we are forced to pick up the undisclosed fees ASAP .
I think SA and the BOD's will and do keep the club alive,but have no way to turn us back into a FL outfit. Rather than being a 4th tier club aiming for the 3rd we seem more a NL club with futile hopes of ever returning to the FL and our natural divisions are the NL/NLS (which calls us louder every season it seems!).
Saying that-you can point to a load of clubs with new grounds that haven't done brilliantly (Chesterfield with us for years/Colchester treading water/Notts County down to our level) but the potential to progress is there where it isn't with us, and bad ownership is far more damaging to league status than a poor team alone-more than a few sides in the NL are testimony to that and more than a few (Luton Oxford Stockport Orient..) can testify what happens when the ownership is right. It's not easy to say the least.

[WTF]

Shahid has said in the past he will hand over the reigns of ATFC if in his opinion the right people make the right offer.

What worries me is what qualifies Shahid to choose what is and what isn't the right offer and there is never any obligation to publicly advise supporters.

All the while Shahid holds (and enjoys) the power is there any incentive to hand over control?

How do the supporters know that offers (good or bad) haven't already been made and dismissed by Shahid? You'd hope the interested parties might make their intent public, but it's not always that simple.

I fear Shahid will never willingly hand over control and we will be led down a path supporters just don't want. Regional part time football in a boxed in stadium of 5000 capacity that everyone hates. The result? Oblivion.

The above message deserves a thread of it's own.

Technically the club is broke, I could use other more inflamatory words but will remain from doing so.

As Abee gave Shahid the benefit of the doubt, so will I.

First it is not unreasonable for Shahid and other board members to protect their financial investment. There is though no value to "Loving the Club" or "I've worked hard over the last 14 years.

The sale price is negotiable and depends on the negotiable hit they are prepared to take 1% or 99%.

The value of the club is the value of the balance sheet and P&L forecast moving forward and lets throw in the emotional element and the price someone is prepared to sacrifice from their wealth. Of course wrapped up in the last known balance sheet 22/23 accounts is a possible £1.4m of debt servicing.

In addition we have a massive elephant in the room, which is the redevelopment of the stadium. The club needs a new ground, a lot of work has gone into it and the council is fully behind the proposition.

Shahid has always said he will leave the club once the club is debt free and a new ground is built. So on the basis of that currently the club would not be for sell unless someone came in and cleared all the shareholders out and the debt about £2.5m. Throw in a minimum 500k working capital then £3,000,000 is the money needed to gain control and forward plan, and we haven't started on the development yet which maybe requires 10m to build an acceptable arena which the fans will buy into. I Haven't included the housing project in any of those figures as in my opinion it is better to move than produce a limited stadium with no possibility of future development to the rear of the East Bank.

We can pick over the nuts and bolts, but this is where I believe we are: and maybe like you or me if we were in the same position, surely we would like to see some return on our investment.

The bottom line is what are the current penny in the £ the custodians require to relinquish control., if they had the thought going through their mind

You're being too kind in my opinion Brian. But I agree about the figure of 3m to purchase the club if all debts and shareholders are paid.