Club Fine

[HackJowarth]

The last person in the world that Shahid would take advice from is me but it's clear that his board needs 'beefing up'.

Quite the contrary, Abee. I think Azeem should be taking advice from you. After all, you talk more sense than he ever has and you seem to understand the club and the needs more than he does and he has had 10 years at the helm. We've gone backwards and fallen further behind since he took over.
He should welcome any advice and support given because my god, he needs it.

Make that 12 years at the helm and 14 at the club and just a relegation to show!

And some near relegation failures too! Credit where credit is due

[Sean Chambers]

I feel that it's something the Police should have been involved in as there was/is a potential danger to life. They would have the power to stop and search on entrance to the ground etc. Security guards do not have the same powers.....I wonder if the Police were contacted?

The Police attend the Safety Action Group, generally held, or was every 2-3 months. In addition the local council attended, the fire brigade, the safety officer and ambulance service. It was a very serious meeting chaired by a very senior council employee.

Without doubt ongoing issues would and should have been addressed at these meetings. The club has a lot of experience and help at its disposal, however when reporting to the FA you had better make sure your report is concise and filled with all the actions the club has taken in line with the professional service advice. Linking everything together shows due diligence on behalf of the club. For instance part of the report would/ should have detailed tannoy messages with recorded evidence, programme notes and signage around the stadium and minutes of meeting as evidence of the club attempting everything to address this serious issue.

But no matter what the club does, idiots will always be around, and most shots fans, me included would have sung this in our younger days.

Yes, the tannoy message, akin to please stop that you naughty boys

That’s exactly how I heard it as well.

[Birdman]

The last person in the world that Shahid would take advice from is me but it's clear that his board needs 'beefing up'.

Quite the contrary, Abee. I think Azeem should be taking advice from you. After all, you talk more sense than he ever has and you seem to understand the club and the needs more than he does and he has had 10 years at the helm. We've gone backwards and fallen further behind since he took over.
He should welcome any advice and support given because my god, he needs it.

Make that 12 years at the helm and 14 at the club and just a relegation to show!

In SA’s defence (if that’s allowed) when he joined the club Kris Machala was Chairman and owned over 50% of the club’s shares. As such KM had or made the final decisions. SA also put in a six figure sum (£300k I believe) that enabled the club to see out its final season in the FL, a sum that he never got back when we went into administration. When SA took over as chairman in Feb/March ‘13 Kris Machala still had overall control of the club.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/21587960

I mentioned on here not that long ago Graham Brookland’s book which is about his time supporting The Shots both pre and post ‘92. It’s a good book to read especially the chapters about the lead up to and during our administration.

Now, please don’t think that I’m of the opinion that everything at the club is hunky dory, it clearly isn’t. My red’n’blue tinted specs were disposed of a long time ago. The debt we have is a big concern and there have been decisions made that with hindsight were wrong ie the managers that we’ve signed and *needing to be paid off being one expensive example. A CEO appointment being another.
(*that might need some clarification rather than my assumption)

All that said, I, like many other Shots supporters have hung in there in the hope of better times to come. Quite a few of our supporters aren’t fans of SA but they still come to games because (cliche alert) at the end of the day this is still our club, our team.

[abee]

I had hoped back in October 2016- May 2017 that a small group of us including then current and former directors could have perhaps achieved something but we’ll never know and I won’t die wondering.

I have some (but not too much) sympathy with the current Aldershot board. Running a football club is not easy. I was asked to join the Brentford board in November 2007 as the club was in the bottom four League Two and the finances were in a mess. My 2005 loan entitled me to a seat on the Brentford board anyway back in January 2006 which I declined as I had an overseas job and was a non-UK resident for tax purposes. My position in November 2007 was that I’d help but that I didn’t want to be on the board. However it was put to me that if I was introduced to the staff as a ‘supporter who is here to help’ then they wouldn’t understand what I had to do and I’d never easily get anything done whereas if I went in as the sole Executive Director then that would give me more clout to drive things.

By November 2007 I was working in Paris for a Saudi group when I accepted the Brentford request and my wife alarmed asked how I was going to manage two jobs. I said that I was used to turning round large groups, Brentford was just a twopenny halfpenny business and if I couldn’t knock it over in six months then I was losing my grip. Was I ever wrong………it took three years before I was totally satisfied with how things were off the field and if it wasn’t for Bob Lampert’s input and guidance I would have crashed and burned within weeks. As it happened Bob who had been there for twenty eight years pulled me through and I got to understand how to run a lower level football club, what was required and what had to be done.

We got it turned around at Brentford and Matthew Benham came in. Initially he was adding a very significant £500k pa to whatever income stream we had. I know that Aldershot does not have a current financial saviour but the principles are the same and my view is that like Brentford if you have a couple or several long standing supporters with different skill sets to contribute on the board then the majority of supporters are more relaxed regarding the off the field situation. At Brentford the supporters may have thought that we were all idiots but our screw-ups were accepted because at least we were their idiots!!

The first thing to go when a club is on the way down is communications to staff and supporters when it ought to be top of the ‘get improved’ list.

So having said that I wouldn’t post again on here certainly significantly I have for the past half dozen years just sadly watched from a distance and I do read every Shotsweb post every day. I happily contributed to the fundraising a while back which I see makes me a ‘Co-Owner’ and I guess that’s like being an Associate Director at Brentford……….those two non-appointments plus five quid gets me a coffee in Starbucks.

I truly hope that Shahid, the board and the Team Manager meet all of their targets for this season even if we don’t have a clue what they are and by which I believe they should be judged.

I shall carry on reading Shotsweb even if this post gets me banned for life!

[supershots]

Yes, well, anyway…During the original discussions about pyro chucking, some time ago, I was assured that all areas of the EastBank were covered by camera. Probably box-ticking, because they’ve been a fat lot of use in identifying perpetrators.
Possibly, now that there’s been a monetary fine, “something “ will be done, but I’m not holding my breath.

I feel that it's something the Police should have been involved in as there was/is a potential danger to life. They would have the power to stop and search on entrance to the ground etc. Security guards do not have the same powers.....I wonder if the Police were contacted?

The Police attend the Safety Action Group, generally held, or was every 2-3 months. In addition the local council attended, the fire brigade, the safety officer and ambulance service. It was a very serious meeting chaired by a very senior council employee.

Without doubt ongoing issues would and should have been addressed at these meetings. The club has a lot of experience and help at its disposal, however when reporting to the FA you had better make sure your report is concise and filled with all the actions the club has taken in line with the professional service advice. Linking everything together shows due diligence on behalf of the club. For instance part of the report would/ should have detailed tannoy messages with recorded evidence, programme notes and signage around the stadium and minutes of meeting as evidence of the club attempting everything to address this serious issue.

But no matter what the club does, idiots will always be around, and most shots fans, me included would have sung this in our younger days.

That would have been early sixties then Brian!

[Turnkey]

I shall carry on reading Shotsweb even if this post gets me banned for life!

Reading your posts on here makes me sad/angry, but not surprised you assistance wasn’t accepted. God forbid the club may engage someone who knows what they’re doing.

As one of the best posters on here I do hope you continue to contribute, your posts are always incredibly interesting.

[brian bloomfield]

I feel that it's something the Police should have been involved in as there was/is a potential danger to life. They would have the power to stop and search on entrance to the ground etc. Security guards do not have the same powers.....I wonder if the Police were contacted?

The Police attend the Safety Action Group, generally held, or was every 2-3 months. In addition the local council attended, the fire brigade, the safety officer and ambulance service. It was a very serious meeting chaired by a very senior council employee.

Without doubt ongoing issues would and should have been addressed at these meetings. The club has a lot of experience and help at its disposal, however when reporting to the FA you had better make sure your report is concise and filled with all the actions the club has taken in line with the professional service advice. Linking everything together shows due diligence on behalf of the club. For instance part of the report would/ should have detailed tannoy messages with recorded evidence, programme notes and signage around the stadium and minutes of meeting as evidence of the club attempting everything to address this serious issue.

But no matter what the club does, idiots will always be around, and most shots fans, me included would have sung this in our younger days.

That would have been early sixties then Brian!

Cheeky. I joined the Army in Aldershot in 76.

[Harlow Massive]

The Police attend the Safety Action Group, generally held, or was every 2-3 months. In addition the local council attended, the fire brigade, the safety officer and ambulance service. It was a very serious meeting chaired by a very senior council employee.

Without doubt ongoing issues would and should have been addressed at these meetings. The club has a lot of experience and help at its disposal, however when reporting to the FA you had better make sure your report is concise and filled with all the actions the club has taken in line with the professional service advice. Linking everything together shows due diligence on behalf of the club. For instance part of the report would/ should have detailed tannoy messages with recorded evidence, programme notes and signage around the stadium and minutes of meeting as evidence of the club attempting everything to address this serious issue.

But no matter what the club does, idiots will always be around, and most shots fans, me included would have sung this in our younger days.

That would have been early sixties then Brian!

Cheeky. I joined the Army in Aldershot in 76.

Was that 1876 Brian?

[abee]

One more try.

The essential point that I probably did not make clear in my earlier post is that running a football club is like nothing that I had experienced. I thought that I had been around the business block a few times but back in 2007 I wasn’t prepared for the difficulty of running a football club.

We can all agree that (Sir) Jim Ratcliffe and (Lord) Alan Sugar are two well known and very successful businessmen. However Ratcliffe is making a pigs ear at Man United and Sugar never got to grips with Tottenham and finally gave up.

If Aldershot are appointing board members on the basis of ‘bring your cheque book with you’ then that’s fine if it keeps the club solvent but don’t for one minute think that because they run a local business they can immediately run the football club.

The ATFC board comprises four I believe since the now suspended lawyer resigned/was resigned (delete as applicable) and that’s not enough given the lack of paid executives for well understood financial reasons on the general staff.

The board in my view needs the addition of at least two well known supporters who are trusted by and familiar to the support base one of whom needs to assume responsibility for communications.

[Jimbo68]

Think the club will have trouble trying to stop flares being brought into the ground ,as I have seen the parents 'mums' bringing flares into the ground then passing them on to youngsters once inside the ground hard to believe but true how do you stop that

[Old Bob]

One more try.

The essential point that I probably did not make clear in my earlier post is that running a football club is like nothing that I had experienced. I thought that I had been around the business block a few times but back in 2007 I wasn’t prepared for the difficulty of running a football club.

We can all agree that (Sir) Jim Ratcliffe and (Lord) Alan Sugar are two well known and very successful businessmen. However Ratcliffe is making a pigs ear at Man United and Sugar never got to grips with Tottenham and finally gave up.

If Aldershot are appointing board members on the basis of ‘bring your cheque book with you’ then that’s fine if it keeps the club solvent but don’t for one minute think that because they run a local business they can immediately run the football club.

The ATFC board comprises four I believe since the now suspended lawyer resigned/was resigned (delete as applicable) and that’s not enough given the lack of paid executives for well understood financial reasons on the general staff.

The board in my view needs the addition of at least two well known supporters who are trusted by and familiar to the support base one of whom needs to assume responsibility for communications.

If you have been reading Shotsweb over recent times, abee, you will know that it in my considered opinion it is a gross error to think of a football club as a business, like any other. I get a lot of stick for this. It's because of the post-Thatcher orthodoxy that everything has to be treated as a business and that the only people who can run an enterprise of any kind are businessmen/women. Because it's orthodoxy, people don't think to question it. If they did, and really thought hard about it, they might start to see how shallow the dogma is, like much of Thatcherism.

[TracoShot]

Out of interest does anyone know the consequences of not paying the fine on time ?

[Birdman]

Think the club will have trouble trying to stop flares being brought into the ground ,as I have seen the parents 'mums' bringing flares into the ground then passing them on to youngsters once inside the ground hard to believe but true how do you stop that

If you’ve seen that happen then report it to a steward. They’ve only got to contact the control room (via their walkie talkies) to let them know. And yes, possibly easier said than done.

[abee]

If you have been reading Shotsweb over recent times, abee, you will know that it in my considered opinion it is a gross error to think of a football club as a business, like any other. I get a lot of stick for this. It's because of the post-Thatcher orthodoxy that everything has to be treated as a business and that the only people who can run an enterprise of any kind are businessmen/women. Because it's orthodoxy, people don't think to question it. If they did, and really thought hard about it, they might start to see how shallow the dogma is, like much of Thatcherism.

Yes I have seen your posts Old Bob and I half agree with you.

A football club is both a business and an important community asset but it cannot be run like other businesses.

The mistake is to think that because a local businessman writes a cheque and goes onto the board that everything is going to be great. What they are invariably doing is plugging the financial hole that the 'businessmen' before them created.

My own philosophy in any business/football club is that:- 'Them's that got you into the **** ain't the ones who are gonna get you out of it'.

The sort of statement from any lower league club that makes my blood run cold is on the lines 'Jim Goatgrabber who runs a successful chain of dry cleaners in Nearbytown has bought shares/provided a loan (delete as applicable) joined the board and we look forward to his contribution and expertise'.

It's garbage.

Tell me......ATFC has had businessmen join and leave the board over the past decade but can any supporter truly say and believe that the professionalism and running of the club off the field has improved in any way at all.

I can't see it and the board needs beefing up with well known supporters who can bring their own expertise probably in lieu of any investment. I'd sooner see any new board appointments highlighted for what they bring to the board rather than someone who writes out a cheque and is automatically able to say that he is a big important director at his local club.

[Ex Attendant]

Pay no attention to it...it's kids or young adults that sing it know no better. They will soon grow up. The Catholics also sing some nasty songs about the prodies....
As old Bob corrected me for it is Northern Ireland. Which to me should belong to Eire not because we sent a lot of Dutch prodie settlers century's ago.... That's only my opinion.

Sorry Bob and ex attendent.

Bit simplistic Bruce, If the six counties are sold out to Eire we would have more of the ethnic cleansing that has already started.

Maybe but it's Ireland....Though I must admit I would not be bothered if anything North of Watford if the powers that be sectioned it off and gave it to Scotland, that's even more simplistic )

Ireland is an island with two countries on it Eire and Northern Ireland, much like Hispaniola has two nations on it.