Aldershot Town 2-2 Braintree Town - Tuesday 14th January 2025 (Match Day Thread)

[Jason]

Reflecting on Tuesday’s game, Theo wasn’t great but I thought our defence couldn’t deal well with the bypassing of midfield from the long ball game Braintree frequently used.Whereas Braintree players treated the game as must win, there were some sorry under performances by a number of our players.

I thought Braintree could have gone after Armitage a bit more than they did in the first half while he was a bit of a rabbit in the headlights.

Also agree that blaming so much on Theo is probably missing the mark. A few things are true, I think:

1) Tetek and Hargreaves are the better pairing on form at the moment, so should play. (But I think Theo was better than given credit for earlier in the season)
2) Having the manager's son in the team is always going to draw negativity, and doubly so if the team is struggling, and even more if there are good alternatives not being used. So politically it's all a bit dubious and basically is asking for trouble. I'm sure Tommy thought he could handle all this but if the players start to doubt the setup he's in trouble. So it's a pointless distraction if the player isn't extremely good.
3) generally speaking one player doesn't make that much difference. I don't think Theo is holding us back, he's just not pushing us forward at the moment and his play is a symptom of the broader problems. And Tetek and Hargreaves would give us a slightly better chance to win week in and week out.
4) the bigger issue remains tactical, this loyalty to a 3-4-2-1 formation that doesn't seem to have any great merit and which the players don't always look comfortable in, and the constant chopping and changing of players in the back so they can't build the relationships and partnerships they need to.
5) They are also being stupid with Johnny Stuttle (and even Kai Corbett). Players get tired in games and there's no world where Barham after 75 minutes of running is a better player than Stuttle.

Just on a couple of your points;

1) earlier in the season Theo did have a couple of games where he put in reasonable performances. He did get credit for them and most were saying they hoped that perhaps last season he'd had an injury or something and that now we were going to see a much improved Theo. But it turned out to be a false dawn. Nobody is willing Theo to fail, because that ultimately means ATFC fail, but from what most of us see, he is simply far below the standard required.

2) having the managers son in the team doesn't necessarily draw negativity, but it perhaps does draw more scrutiny. Unfortunately for Theo, another thing that draws more scrutiny is paying a fee for someone at this level (see the greater scrutiny applied to Kai Corbett over Hady Ghandour for instance). If Theo were good enough, the level of scrutiny wouldn't be a problem. But the simple fact is, if not for his dad, Theo would be nowhere near the professional game. At best he may be the second tier of the Isthmian League, but even then wouldn't be a stand out player.

3) actually I think one player can make a huge difference if you look at all the factors. It isn't just about feeling like you are playing a player short, it is the frustration and disharmony that it causes.
Yellow cards for players getting frustrated at the lack of support from their team mate and thus making rash challenges, eventual giving up/apathy from players feeling that they are giving their all only to be let down by someone that is not good enough, but will never get dropped. Players leaving the club due to frustration, knowing that they will never get the chance to play even on merit, due to the place always being taken. Theo's knowledge that no matter how much he screws up, he will always be picked, so he has a free pass to be stupid (red card Vs Chesterfield last season, red card Vs Daggers this). Frustration on the terraces, leading to a negative atmosphere.

It all adds up to make that one player quite a key part of the downfall.

[lowerbourneshot]

Reflecting on Tuesday’s game, Theo wasn’t great but I thought our defence couldn’t deal well with the bypassing of midfield from the long ball game Braintree frequently used.Whereas Braintree players treated the game as must win, there were some sorry under performances by a number of our players.

I thought Braintree could have gone after Armitage a bit more than they did in the first half while he was a bit of a rabbit in the headlights.

Also agree that blaming so much on Theo is probably missing the mark. A few things are true, I think:

1) Tetek and Hargreaves are the better pairing on form at the moment, so should play. (But I think Theo was better than given credit for earlier in the season)
2) Having the manager's son in the team is always going to draw negativity, and doubly so if the team is struggling, and even more if there are good alternatives not being used. So politically it's all a bit dubious and basically is asking for trouble. I'm sure Tommy thought he could handle all this but if the players start to doubt the setup he's in trouble. So it's a pointless distraction if the player isn't extremely good.
3) generally speaking one player doesn't make that much difference. I don't think Theo is holding us back, he's just not pushing us forward at the moment and his play is a symptom of the broader problems. And Tetek and Hargreaves would give us a slightly better chance to win week in and week out.
4) the bigger issue remains tactical, this loyalty to a 3-4-2-1 formation that doesn't seem to have any great merit and which the players don't always look comfortable in, and the constant chopping and changing of players in the back so they can't build the relationships and partnerships they need to.
5) They are also being stupid with Johnny Stuttle (and even Kai Corbett). Players get tired in games and there's no world where Barham after 75 minutes of running is a better player than Stuttle.

Just on a couple of your points;

1) earlier in the season Theo did have a couple of games where he put in reasonable performances. He did get credit for them and most were saying they hoped that perhaps last season he'd had an injury or something and that now we were going to see a much improved Theo. But it turned out to be a false dawn. Nobody is willing Theo to fail, because that ultimately means ATFC fail, but from what most of us see, he is simply far below the standard required.

2) having the managers son in the team doesn't necessarily draw negativity, but it perhaps does draw more scrutiny. Unfortunately for Theo, another thing that draws more scrutiny is paying a fee for someone at this level (see the greater scrutiny applied to Kai Corbett over Hady Ghandour for instance). If Theo were good enough, the level of scrutiny wouldn't be a problem. But the simple fact is, if not for his dad, Theo would be nowhere near the professional game. At best he may be the second tier of the Isthmian League, but even then wouldn't be a stand out player.

3) actually I think one player can make a huge difference if you look at all the factors. It isn't just about feeling like you are playing a player short, it is the frustration and disharmony that it causes.
Yellow cards for players getting frustrated at the lack of support from their team mate and thus making rash challenges, eventual giving up/apathy from players feeling that they are giving their all only to be let down by someone that is not good enough, but will never get dropped. Players leaving the club due to frustration, knowing that they will never get the chance to play even on merit, due to the place always being taken. Theo's knowledge that no matter how much he screws up, he will always be picked, so he has a free pass to be stupid (red card Vs Chesterfield last season, red card Vs Daggers this). Frustration on the terraces, leading to a negative atmosphere.

It all adds up to make that one player quite a key part of the downfall.

Said it for a long time picking Theo will be one of the reasons Tommy gets the sack

[Stenhouse]

Reflecting on Tuesday’s game, Theo wasn’t great but I thought our defence couldn’t deal well with the bypassing of midfield from the long ball game Braintree frequently used.Whereas Braintree players treated the game as must win, there were some sorry under performances by a number of our players.

I thought Braintree could have gone after Armitage a bit more than they did in the first half while he was a bit of a rabbit in the headlights.

Also agree that blaming so much on Theo is probably missing the mark. A few things are true, I think:

1) Tetek and Hargreaves are the better pairing on form at the moment, so should play. (But I think Theo was better than given credit for earlier in the season)
2) Having the manager's son in the team is always going to draw negativity, and doubly so if the team is struggling, and even more if there are good alternatives not being used. So politically it's all a bit dubious and basically is asking for trouble. I'm sure Tommy thought he could handle all this but if the players start to doubt the setup he's in trouble. So it's a pointless distraction if the player isn't extremely good.
3) generally speaking one player doesn't make that much difference. I don't think Theo is holding us back, he's just not pushing us forward at the moment and his play is a symptom of the broader problems. And Tetek and Hargreaves would give us a slightly better chance to win week in and week out.
4) the bigger issue remains tactical, this loyalty to a 3-4-2-1 formation that doesn't seem to have any great merit and which the players don't always look comfortable in, and the constant chopping and changing of players in the back so they can't build the relationships and partnerships they need to.
5) They are also being stupid with Johnny Stuttle (and even Kai Corbett). Players get tired in games and there's no world where Barham after 75 minutes of running is a better player than Stuttle.

Just on a couple of your points;

1) earlier in the season Theo did have a couple of games where he put in reasonable performances. He did get credit for them and most were saying they hoped that perhaps last season he'd had an injury or something and that now we were going to see a much improved Theo. But it turned out to be a false dawn. Nobody is willing Theo to fail, because that ultimately means ATFC fail, but from what most of us see, he is simply far below the standard required.

2) having the managers son in the team doesn't necessarily draw negativity, but it perhaps does draw more scrutiny. Unfortunately for Theo, another thing that draws more scrutiny is paying a fee for someone at this level (see the greater scrutiny applied to Kai Corbett over Hady Ghandour for instance). If Theo were good enough, the level of scrutiny wouldn't be a problem. But the simple fact is, if not for his dad, Theo would be nowhere near the professional game. At best he may be the second tier of the Isthmian League, but even then wouldn't be a stand out player.

3) actually I think one player can make a huge difference if you look at all the factors. It isn't just about feeling like you are playing a player short, it is the frustration and disharmony that it causes.
Yellow cards for players getting frustrated at the lack of support from their team mate and thus making rash challenges, eventual giving up/apathy from players feeling that they are giving their all only to be let down by someone that is not good enough, but will never get dropped. Players leaving the club due to frustration, knowing that they will never get the chance to play even on merit, due to the place always being taken. Theo's knowledge that no matter how much he screws up, he will always be picked, so he has a free pass to be stupid (red card Vs Chesterfield last season, red card Vs Daggers this). Frustration on the terraces, leading to a negative atmosphere.

It all adds up to make that one player quite a key part of the downfall.

Great post young Jason! By the way, she still loves you!

[Silasgoldeen]

Thanks all, good discussion. I think we will see Hargreaves back on Saturday.

[Marcus ex W.Midlands Shot]

Thanks all, good discussion. I think we will see Hargreaves back on Saturday.

I reckon you summed up the issue with the manager's son in one phrase "if the player isn't extremely good, it's a pointless distraction". Harry Redknapp was asked once if he had ever been tempted to sign his England-international son Jamie and said "there's always enough problems for a manager without having your own boy at the club".

[Alex]

After what Theo did at Dagenham his contract with ATFC should’ve been terminated that evening!

[Warnboro South]

No worries.

According to our Club's website, we played Braintree 'United' on Tuesday!

[HackJowarth]

No worries.

According to our Club's website, we played Braintree 'United' on Tuesday!

Another howler?

[Peter macdonald]

That’s absolutely pathetic

[Peter macdonald]

Thanks all, good discussion. I think we will see Hargreaves back on Saturday.

I reckon you summed up the issue with the manager's son in one phrase "if the player isn't extremely good, it's a pointless distraction". Harry Redknapp was asked once if he had ever been tempted to sign his England-international son Jamie and said "there's always enough problems for a manager without having your own boy at the club".

I thought Jamie played for his dad at Southampton in around 2005?

[Rba]

After what Theo did at Dagenham his contract with ATFC should’ve been terminated that evening!

Alex again your right.
Feel you may be called negative for speaking the truth.

[Aldershot_Rob]

Post snipped as felt it didn't need to be C&P again.

Great post, Jason. I think you have summed it up perfectly.

[lowerbourneshot]

After what Theo did at Dagenham his contract with ATFC should’ve been terminated that evening!

Alex again your right.
Feel you may be called negative for speaking the truth.

I totally agree . If that was 10 yards away off the pitch it would probably lead to criminal charges

[lowerbourneshot]

Thanks all, good discussion. I think we will see Hargreaves back on Saturday.

I reckon you summed up the issue with the manager's son in one phrase "if the player isn't extremely good, it's a pointless distraction". Harry Redknapp was asked once if he had ever been tempted to sign his England-international son Jamie and said "there's always enough problems for a manager without having your own boy at the club".

Jamie played under Arry at Southampton

[Birdman]

After what Theo did at Dagenham his contract with ATFC should’ve been terminated that evening!

Alex again your right.
Feel you may be called negative for speaking the truth.

I totally agree . If that was 10 yards away off the pitch it would probably lead to criminal charges

When we played Southend at home back in our all to brief 5 year tenure in the FL our centre half, Darren Jones, thumped one of their players during a brief coming-together. This happened off the pitch next to the North Stand wall and the thump was worse than Widderington’s forearm assault on the Dagenham player. I don’t recall as much anger and bitterness towards Jones as there is towards Widderington. Yes, there were disapproving comments on Shotsweb but again, I don’t recall there being calls for his contract to be terminated that evening.
Before anyone thinks that I’m trying to defend Widderington, I’m 100% not. He fully deserved his red card and ban (as did Jones) but it does appear to me that it comes down to whether supporters like a player or not.