Constructive ideas for Ground Development

[Turnkey]

Yeah Birdy, read it again. Bet Rusty has it all on a spreadsheet, and if you’re really lucky he’ll do you a PowerPoint.

[Birdman]

To be fair, I do see Mr Rusts point. The rec holds 7,100 comfortably and has held five figure crowds multiple times. Ok not by modern safety standards, but remember also large sections of the East Bank, away slab and HSE are now no go areas and modern 6000 capacity stadiums like those mentioned above do feel small compared to the rec.

If built properly it doesn't have to feel empty. With 2000 in the rec currently it feels busy and with a good atmosphere, and is in reality only 30% full (or 10% by 1970 standards).

The away slab (open terrace) isn’t a no-go area. It’s just not used if the away attendance doesn’t warrant it. Due to a L2 requirement the ground now has more seating than it used to have back in the day and seating uses up more space per person than standing does.
Re the Eastbank, much will depend on how the space is allotted. If the home and away supporters are in the Eastbank then the no-mans area between both sets of supporters will still need to be in place.

Rusty, I’m sorry that I haven’t gone into detail about your five points. Our main (only) difference is with ground capacity so on that let’s just agree to disagree.

[Richard Petty]

To be fair, I do see Mr Rusts point. The rec holds 7,100 comfortably and has held five figure crowds multiple times. Ok not by modern safety standards, but remember also large sections of the East Bank, away slab and HSE are now no go areas and modern 6000 capacity stadiums like those mentioned above do feel small compared to the rec.

If built properly it doesn't have to feel empty. With 2000 in the rec currently it feels busy and with a good atmosphere, and is in reality only 30% full (or 10% by 1970 standards).

That's the point that Birdman and I have been trying to.make that the current stadium size still sustains a good atmosphere with our average crowds. If you increased the size to a 12,000 capacity then it could feel very empty.

At the end of the day it is all about personal opinions there is no right or wrong. My personal opinion is I dont like obviously empty stadiums or stadiums big empty spaces due to areas having to be taken out of use to avoid unnecessary match day costs.

[Ian Rust]

My five points are all falsifiable, yet remain unchallenged.
Says it all really doesn’t it

[Rba]

My five points are all falsifiable, yet remain unchallenged.
Says it all really doesn’t it

You should be chairmen. All the time Mr Azeem is that ground will never be built.

[CH]

I thought there were parts of the away slab that were sectioned off now, even if the area is being used?

[Richard Petty]

I thought there were parts of the away slab that were sectioned off now, even if the area is being used?

It was reconfigured some years back which took out of use a very small section of the old original stonework that was dangerous and redirected the way that people can enter and leave the terrace but doing that actually increased the allowed capacity rather than reduce it, it went up from the original 390 to the current 510 capacity.

[dougoftheshots]

As we are going to lose the ground from the railway the south stand can be brought forward a few yards on that side plenty of room in front of it to do so same as the east bank away open terrace and the slab to join up .

[Richard Petty]

As we are going to lose the ground from the railway the south stand can be brought forward a few yards on that side plenty of room in front of it to do so same as the east bank away open terrace and the slab to join up .

The South Stand itself doesn't actually reach the railway owned land, its the Phoenix Lounge (Wallys Bar) that sits half in and half out of their land along with the Foundation Office and the upstairs bar to the hospitality boxes so whether terracing or seating the South stand itself does not have to reduce or relocate its footprint

[Aldershot_Rob]

Rusty, I really am not sure what you are on sometimes, but I have come to the conclusion you are as mad as a box of frogs. Anyway, you seem intent on someone challenging your 5 points, which by the way, are not all factual and in most cases just opinion.

Fact is that;
(1) before the current ground safety regs our current ground comfortably held 15,000 (record is 19,000).

Yes, but I don't really see your point, with the exception of the Man Utd tie, we haven't got close to 10,000 in decades.

(2) the stand I proposed from the Boston ground is quite small. Only 2,100 capacity, that is less than our current North Bank which has 1,000 seats plus 1,500 standing under current regs.

From reading your initial post, you propose and assume that we have the footprint for 3 x the Boston west stand, which doesn't work down the HSE...

(3) using that Boston stand on 3 sides of our ground would really only be a new High Street end as the other new stands would just represent a replacement (North Bank) and an extension (South Stand).

Hang on, so you are not using 3 x the West stand after all....

(4) I’ve no idea what you mean by us ‘rattling’ around with a 2,000 gate in my modestly redeveloped Rec. We would have the same amount of fans on each side of the ground as we do now.

Clearly we would be looking at stand closures in your modestly redeveloped 12k capacity Rec when we are literally struggling to attract 10% of that figure in some games. Also, your proposal of the Boston West stand wouldn't fit with the South Stand footprint anyway, , due to the access restrictions and the railway line, the entire front of that West Stand you have in mind would be truly redundant, which would be laughable. Access would have to be gained from the side entrances. Also, do you have the cost of developing a replica of that West Stand? It looks impressive and I can't imagine cheap either.

(5) a redevelopment of any less than 12,000 would reduce the scale of our ground. If a 6,000 capacity ground was built as you propose a re-use of the existing natural bank of the East Bank wold leave us with stands of about 5 rows deep (like the current temporary stand at the High Street End) on the other 3 sides which would look a complete joke and have nothing like the scale of the current ground.

The footprint of our ground will remain the same because as far as anyone is aware, there is no surrender of the current boundaries of the ground. There could be potential for some out buildings or catering bars on the outside areas of the ground, car parking, a club shop but more importantly, access. Who knows, but to suggest a stadium with a capacity of 6K-8K would look a joke compared to a 12K stadium which is never fully opened and cries of "Empty seats" from the away supporters would be a long standing joke.

[margateshot]

I don't think there is anything wrong with the away fans entering from Redan Hill. With a new ground the whole area would be improved with proper access. It would also keep away fans away from home fans. Not too many problems at the moment but if we do progress it would probably be needed more often. Imagine the amount of Wrexham fans entering the ground tomorrow along with home fans at the front of the ground.

We need a proper large purpose built bar with access to food and places to sit. I hate the Dartford ground, but they had a huge bar to cater for fans on match day and big enough for functions. With this this you could have sportsmans evenings etc. to raise income.

i would love to see an increased hospitality area. The match day hospitality at Aldershot is a fantastic experience and I'm sure could hold more guest if larger.

I'm sure having a barrel roof at the East back end would not be a huge problem nowadays with all the materials available. If they can put up curved building and all other strange shapes it can't hard to make a barrel roof on a football stand!!

Bars/food outlets under the stands so there are no queues in the rain or snow

Mostly, it needs to have some sort of identity and character and not be another souless ground

[Richard Petty]

I don't think there is anything wrong with the away fans entering from Redan Hill. With a new ground the whole area would be improved with proper access. It would also keep away fans away from home fans. Not too many problems at the moment but if we do progress it would probably be needed more often. Imagine the amount of Wrexham fans entering the ground tomorrow along with home fans at the front of the ground.

We need a proper large purpose built bar with access to food and places to sit. I hate the Dartford ground, but they had a huge bar to cater for fans on match day and big enough for functions. With this this you could have sportsmans evenings etc. to raise income.

i would love to see an increased hospitality area. The match day hospitality at Aldershot is a fantastic experience and I'm sure could hold more guest if larger.

I'm sure having a barrel roof at the East back end would not be a huge problem nowadays with all the materials available. If they can put up curved building and all other strange shapes it can't hard to make a barrel roof on a football stand!!

Bars/food outlets under the stands so there are no queues in the rain or snow

Mostly, it needs to have some sort of identity and character and not be another souless ground

You wouldnt be able to have away fans coming off Redan Hill unless you then build a very expensive bridge over the railway in line with the back of the stadium as the lower part of the park that the pathway currently runs through wont be there anymore as that is where all the housing is going.

[margateshot]

I don't think there is anything wrong with the away fans entering from Redan Hill. With a new ground the whole area would be improved with proper access. It would also keep away fans away from home fans. Not too many problems at the moment but if we do progress it would probably be needed more often. Imagine the amount of Wrexham fans entering the ground tomorrow along with home fans at the front of the ground.

We need a proper large purpose built bar with access to food and places to sit. I hate the Dartford ground, but they had a huge bar to cater for fans on match day and big enough for functions. With this this you could have sportsmans evenings etc. to raise income.

i would love to see an increased hospitality area. The match day hospitality at Aldershot is a fantastic experience and I'm sure could hold more guest if larger.

I'm sure having a barrel roof at the East back end would not be a huge problem nowadays with all the materials available. If they can put up curved building and all other strange shapes it can't hard to make a barrel roof on a football stand!!

Bars/food outlets under the stands so there are no queues in the rain or snow

Mostly, it needs to have some sort of identity and character and not be another souless ground

You wouldnt be able to have away fans coming off Redan Hill unless you then build a very expensive bridge over the railway in line with the back of the stadium as the lower part of the park that the pathway currently runs through wont be there anymore as that is where all the housing is going.

That's fair enough Richard and I totally understand that, but considering there is likely to be over 4000 at the ground tomorrow, would it not be a health and safety issue with the limited space available at the front, with both home and away fans mixing?

[Richard Petty]

You wouldnt be able to have away fans coming off Redan Hill unless you then build a very expensive bridge over the railway in line with the back of the stadium as the lower part of the park that the pathway currently runs through wont be there anymore as that is where all the housing is going.

That's fair enough Richard and I totally understand that, but considering there is likely to be over 4000 at the ground tomorrow, would it not be a health and safety issue with the limited space available at the front, with both home and away fans mixing?

Thats a fair comment margateshot and in my mind I don't have a clear solution for that, hopefully those designing the whole development will come up with something. I have a couple of thoughts but as they are just vague ideas I wont suggest them here as I can't back them up with any substance.

Mind you of course a lot of stadiums have no segregation outside stadiums so perhaps we are overthinking this

[karlready]

That's fair enough Richard and I totally understand that, but considering there is likely to be over 4000 at the ground tomorrow, would it not be a health and safety issue with the limited space available at the front, with both home and away fans mixing?

Thats a fair comment margateshot and in my mind I don't have a clear solution for that, hopefully those designing the whole development will come up with something. I have a couple of thoughts but as they are just vague ideas I wont suggest them here as I can't back them up with any substance.

Mind you of course a lot of stadiums have no segregation outside stadiums so perhaps we are overthinking this

The Redan entrance is a real plonk up and down the hill. The street parking is non-existent, and when the area is developed for housing ,access for possibly 1000 will need to be carefully thought out, possibly with an enclosed pathway. Very far from ideal, and we have just this one chance to get it right.